Friday, April 30, 2010

Eight Clouds

I’m reading a modern translation of Kojiki by Umehara Takeshi. Kojiki was edited from 711 to 713, so this poem was perhaps made much before. Looking at Vincent’s Jamaica photos, I wanted to show this poem. But I feel differently from the Japanese translation by the author and also from an English translation I found in web. Since all of you are good at writing poems, I need your help. This is the way the poem is saying to me.


Eight Clouds


Eight clouds stand.

Arisen clouds form fences.

To hold my wife,

I make an eightfold fence

which is that eightfold fence.

10 comments:

Vincent said...

I'm baffled. But I like this piece of prose from an autobiographical book by Eric Linklater in the mid-fifties, when airliners were rather new:

"An acquaintance with the beauty of clouds—with the upper surface of clouds in the deeps of the sky—is one of the benefits that aeroplanes have brought us. Our fathers, if they took the trouble to climb a mountain, could look slantwise down on the curling mists that gather in a valley, but we are the first of mankind to see the great continents of the air, its enormous prairies and fantastic archipelagoes, in sunlight from above. And what beauty there is, what light and splendour, what heights of loveliness and brooding fear, in the landscapes of the clouds! The south of France lay hidden under pleated canopies of clean-combed wool, and vaporous high curtains; but the Mediterranean was a deep-blue field in which were planted, row upon row, ten thousand little flocculent clouds like lettuces."

It was the custom still, as you see, to be leisurely in English prose. I wonder how few syllables a Japanese poet might restrict herself to, to say something similar!

keiko amano said...

Vincent,

My translation is probably bad. But this poem shows the root of Idumo which means similar to “the land of rising clouds.” Idumo is an ancient place. This poem gives me a crystal clear image of the Idumo plain and the blue sky with white clouds. I smell the freshest air and innocent love of the author to his wife. We still speak the words used in this poem today. Even me, at first sight, I understood the poem, although my interpretation is my own, and it can be wrong.

In one of my past blogs, I made an error describing about the Japanese sounds. I recently read that each sound element (sometimes I call just sounds or Japanese syllables) has meaning(s). I knew that, but I thought not always true. But I guess every one of them has meaning. I can’t explain every one of them though.

About innocence, it probably has different levels, and the innocence in this poem is probably unique to the culture. Compared to other countries, Japan almost always enjoyed relative peace, and I think it’s because of it, I can’t explain the level of this innocence. You just have to come to Japan and experience it.

I don’t know if this is an appropriate story to add to this blog. But I think it shows one part of Japanese lives. Two men were talking about Hamlet. A Japanese instructor said one British man kept asking him, “Don’t you sometimes think like Hamlet? You must suffer like that sometimes, don’t you?” Something like that. The instructor thought the question was odd. He told the British man, “No, we don’t think like that!” He was laughing hard probably because the British man maybe looked serious. The Japanese instructor is an intelligent man. He graduated from one of elite universities in Tokyo, and his students, and I admire his exceptionally kind and thoughtful character. I think the British man was baffled.

Rebb said...

Keiko,

Does eightfold refer to the "Eightfold Path" ?

I feel the tenderness and love the man has for his wife. Eight and eightfold also bring images of a beautiful figure eight, which turned on it's side is the sign of infinity. When I keep reading the poem, I further see the beauty of this man. It's as though he honors his wife with this eightfold fence, which he is a part of.

Thank you for sharing this beautiful poem, Keiko.

**

You're Hamlet story gave me a good laugh! :)

keiko amano said...

Eightfold means many, but I think retaining eightfold is better. What do you think? And it means fences in eight layered, not path.
I think the author feels protective of his wife and ready to have his own family. So he want to be surrounded with white picket fense, so to speak.

About the tenderness and love, thank you for noticing them. Whew! It's so hard to express, and poems are so enticing yet so baffling. I appreciate your help.

About eight lying down sideways like infinity, that's fantastic! I love it.

I'm glad you enjoyed the Hamlet story. I'm sure not everyone think like Hamlet even among British people, but it was understanble to me when he said that.

Rebb said...

Keiko, Yes, I think retaining eightfold seems better, although, it could make some readers think of the “Eightfold path.”

Ah…interesting. I didn’t see it quite like this: “I think the author feels protective of his wife and ready to have his own family. So he want to be surrounded with white picket fence, so to speak.”

“Arisen clouds form fences.” Something about the way "Arisen" is being used keeps knocking at me. I revisited my grammar book and "Arisen" is an irregular verb that falls into the category "past participle." When the past participle of the verb form is used, it has a helping verb that goes along with it: have, has, or had. So, it may help bring clarity to the sentence if you can rework Arisen or change the verb tense. What do you think?

keiko amano said...

Thank you, Rebb.

How about this.



Eight clouds stand

Idumo's eight-layered fences

To hold my wife,

I'll make eight-layered fences

which are the eight-layered fences.


Idumo means appearing clouds which is the name of a historical place.
The first line gives a scene. The second line declares the name of Japan's birthplace. It seems the author is one of many Japanese gods. He is making those clouds to appear, and he is ready to create his kingdom, Idumo. The third line, I trust the author is monogamous. Well, I have freedom to interpret it.

About the last line, it's difficult to translate because the last sound element is "o" which gives the tone of never ending. Because of the above lines with eight clouds and layered fences repeated, the poem has developed a round-and-round feeling. So, the last sound element "o" is very effective in Japanese. But I just don't know how to give that effect in English because the word orders are not the same in English, and in English, the rule is to complete the sentence most of the time. In Japanese, we have freedom in ending at the mid sentence for artistic purposes.

Rebb said...

This is quite fascinating, Keiko. Now that I see eight-layered, it seems eightfold works better for imagery. At least for me. As I mentioned before, it conjures the image of infinity also, which seems to tie in with the “o” sound element of going on. Keiko, I hope I don’t drive you crazy, but now that you’ve explained a little bit, including a reminder of how In Japanese, you have more freedom with the language, I like the first version better. But, as I read back over your comments, I like how you said, “In the land of rising clouds.” What do you think?

Eight clouds stand.

In the land of rising clouds,

fences form.

To hold my wife,

I make an eightfold fence,

which is that eightfold fence.

keiko amano said...

Rebb,

Thank you. I love the translation very much. I think it's straightforward and clear. That's the tone I'd like the poem to convery.

It's too bad that I can't repeat number eight four times in English. I tried it, but I like "the land of rising clouds" and if I use it, then simple "fences" rather than "a eightfold fence" is better there. I want to quote it again here to confirm.


Eight clouds stand.

In the land of rising clouds,

fences form.

To hold my wife,

I make an eightfold fence,

which is that eightfold fence.




Separately, I learned today that one theory of "yakumo" is blazing red clouds. "yaku" is to burn. If it is the latter, then it probably looks like the below photo.

http://www.nhk.or.jp/fujisan-blog/300/12211.html

But I like the image of the blue sky and white shapely clouds for this poem.

Rebb said...

Keiko,

I really like it. Nice job. I’m glad I reread through the whole thread and caught your words. Yes, it’s straightforward and clear.

Thank you for sharing the separate image. The blazing red clouds are beautiful and calming. But, yes, the image of the blue sky and white clouds seem perfect for this poem. Funny, when I looked out my window this morning to inspect the clouds, I did a double take because the way the clouds rested reminded me of your poem.

keiko amano said...

Rebb,

Thank you.

I was originally reading Kojiki to find daku-on (impure sounds or voiced). "Eight Clouds" has many. So, now I'm into a bit higher level at impure sound elements in the language, which means it's much more complex and fascinating at the same time.

I enjoyed the translation of the poem with you. I hope we can do this again. I wasn't satisfied with the translations I read elsewhere. I wonder what readers think.

Readers, please let us know what you think.